From organisational psychology, to tobacco recruitment industry to building startup culture and employee engagement

Kitty: Tell me a bit more about your career journey. So how did you end up in people and culture and if you look back, is that what you expected?

TIffany: It's not actually what I expected! I graduated in Psychology, majoring in Industrial & Organisational psychology. I was aware that I had to work in HR, but I didn't know which part of HR I could contribute to, because HR is a very practical field. Many other majors can participate in HR, as you know, such as Legal or Economics. They can be an HR person as long as they have the necessary skills or the passion to serve people right.

I started my career as a recruiter at a small company in Jakarta. After ten months, I moved to corporate staffing where I worked as a corporate registrar. My responsibilities included overseeing the management training program for sales and marketing at a tobacco company in Indonesia. Since tobacco companies separate their production and sales/marketing departments, I joined the sales and marketing team. Our main task was to find young talent capable of selling tobacco. For three years, I travelled extensively throughout Indonesia and learned how to establish partnerships with top local universities.

Many of my friends were joining startups, and I began to question whether I should try to do the same because I had read about the culture and growth potential in the next few years.

In 2019, I changed the course of my career because there was a significant shift in corporate HR trends. Many of my friends were joining startups, and I began to question whether I should try to do the same because I had read about the culture and growth potential in the next few years. Startups were becoming increasingly popular, and in Indonesia, the most respected startups were in eCommerce. I tried to apply to those companies, but no one responded because I was just a corporate recruiter with no experience in handling tech talent.

Luckily, after many attempts, I was accepted into a fintech company called DANA Indonesia. I joined the People Acquisition team, but mainly focused on onboarding. They experienced massive growth in talent and needed someone to shape the culture and help new joiners transition to fully adapt to the company culture, work efficiently and effectively, and build people, culture, and engagement. I think that was the start of how I ended up in People & Culture. After one year, my managers challenged me to manage social media channels, so I began managing their Instagram account. After that, I joined the People, Culture, and Strategy team, and the employer branding and culture team emerged.

So that's when I learned a lot about how to build a culture and retain talent in a company with a significant talent gap. As you may know, in Indonesia, there was a war for talent because everyone was jumping from one startup to another. That's when I realised that People & Culture would be the career path I would pursue.

Currently, I am working for a local e-commerce company in Indonesia called Blibli, focusing on employer branding and partnerships. I am still part of the culture team, but I also manage internal communications, people engagement, and partnerships with universities.

When I graduated in 2016, the People & Culture field was not very well-known. If you graduated with a degree in psychology, you were likely to become a recruiter.

Is this what I expected when I started working in HR? Actually, not at all. When I graduated in 2016, the People & Culture field was not very well-known. If you graduated with a degree in psychology, you were likely to become a recruiter. Every psychology student was going to be an HR recruiter. Was this what you expected if you wanted to pursue a professional career as a psychologist? Not at all. But I'm glad the journey brought me here so I can share and learn more about people, culture, engagement, and even social media. Just a bit of social media.

What HR in startups need: training in startup culture, access to specific case studies and understanding the local business ecosystem

Kitty: That's great. It sounds like you've had an interesting transition to employer branding and culture shaping.

Since you transitioned from established MNC companies to the wild world of startups, I am sure you have noticed support gaps or very different levels of resources. What kind of support do you wish existed for Southeast Asian startups specifically?

Tiffany: Looking back at my experience, as I mentioned earlier, I was passionate about bringing excitement and culture to new employees. However, at that time, I was also a new employee, so I had to learn and adapt while also sharing information about the organization's culture. Therefore, in terms of the support HR professionals could provide, a comprehensive training program would be very helpful for new hires or anyone interested in working in a startup. This is because they need to learn about the principles, techniques, and culture that are very different from those in an MNC or corporate setting.

Secondly, I believe that access to learning about best practices is crucial for serving whatever is necessary for your role. This could be case studies or by having mentors or supervisors who can share insights on how they have successfully transitioned from their previous culture and company habits to their current ones.

Additionally, collaborations and networking opportunities within the HR profession are essential, especially for first-time managers. When you have a tight-knit community of first-time managers, you can share your struggles and best practices, which can be very helpful for those who are new to the role.

Regarding support for Southeast Asian startups specifically, it depends on the ecosystem and the resources available in that region or company. I researched before this discussion with you, and Southeast Asia has experienced rapid growth in startup activity compared to American or UK companies. There are various organisations, incubators, accelerators, and government initiatives that aim to support the startup industry.

When you decide to work at a startup, you also need to understand its ecosystem, business, and resources. However, the level of support might depend on the country and specific circumstances. When I discussed this with my friends in Singapore or Malaysia, they mentioned different government rules when it comes to startups.

When you decide to work at a startup, you also need to understand its ecosystem, business, and resources. However, the level of support might depend on the country and specific circumstances. When I discussed this with my friends in Singapore or Malaysia, they mentioned different government rules when it comes to startups. This helps shape the context for HR professionals to better understand their contribution to the company and organization for which they work.

Kitty 11:42

That's something unique to you and your role as well, because you're thinking outside the box, considering partnerships, and focusing on the employee value proposition. However, I think many HR professionals may not even have the bandwidth to consider how the supporting infrastructure across organisations can be influenced.

Skill gap assessments, self-learning systems, learning wallets, learning festivals and other ways to build a learning culture, post-restructuring

Kitty: When it comes to restructuring or reorg, it's a moment when leadership will do a bit of soul-searching. Perhaps they will review what has worked or what hasn't worked in a profound way. How can HR professionals use that as a moment to champion better talent development or be more strategic in working with whatever talent we have left after restructuring?

Tiffany: Looking back at the Indonesian ecosystem and startup scene over the past few years, we have experienced a tech winter. I believe this has also been the case for various Southeast Asian countries. Reflecting on my experience working at Blibli, we did not have many layoffs, but it’s an interesting question which I can answer based on our experience.

At Blibli, we underwent a major restructuring and organisational transformation due to our expansion and becoming more like a public company. We went public last December with Pickup and Ranch Market. Pickup.com is a travel startup and OTA. If you've heard of Ranch Market, it's like a grocery store. There have been a lot of changes in organisational transformation. I think our team plays a very strategic role in talent development, and I can mention the following:

The first step is to focus on assessing the skill gap of our talent and identifying the competencies needed for the new structure and our subsidiary group. When we go public, there is a change in business goals. We are not walking this journey alone; we also align with other subsidiary companies.

The second step is designing and implementing targeted training. At Blibli, we have a self-learning management system so that our employees can access and determine their level of competence and the set of training they need to complete by the end of the month. As HR professionals, we also provide well-designed and targeted training.

At Blibli, we have a self-learning management system so that our employees can access and determine their level of competence and the set of training they need to complete by the end of the month. As HR professionals, we also provide well-designed and targeted training.

The third area is identifying high-potential employees and providing them with opportunities for growth and assessment (because HR is known for managing talent, of course). Specifically, we have our High Potential Employee Program, which provides them with a learning wallet to spend on books or certifications, as long as they can reach a certain level of performance.

The fourth point is about creating a culture of continuous learning and development. I agree with you about the role HR can play in this as a strategic goal to support the changes. Our CEO and C-level executives demand dynamic performance from our talent and expect us to boost their performance. That's why we aim to create a culture of continuous learning and development.

At Blibli, we have a learning festival twice a year for our employees. During this festival, all employees are required to attend and cannot work for the day. We feature top speakers in the fields of business, technology, and leadership. The speakers are invited to talk at Blibli and employees are encouraged to learn from them. After the festival, employees are expected to share their insights on the self-learning management system.

And I think the last one is also about aligning the talent development initiatives. My team plays a role in creating employer branding, as well as raising awareness about our culture on social media. This way, the best talents in startups in Asia will know that Blibli can offer great opportunities to grow their careers. We also provide them with the big message of the strategy, goals, and objectives of the organization. I think these points play a big role for HR.

My team plays a role in creating employer branding, as well as raising awareness about our culture on social media. This way, the best talents in startups in Asia will know that Blibli can offer great opportunities to grow their careers.

Real commitment to people development means senior leadership are accountable for learning KPIs

Kitty: It sounds like you guys have a sophisticated learning culture already and it's so rare. So we've spoken to so many startups and they're still at the stage where they're trying to even justify L&D budget.

I'm  curious to hear your take on People & Culture’s relationship with the leadership? Does it come from the senior leadership that they are willing to invest in building a learning culture or did you guys have to fight to get initiatives across? Or you chose your battles well? What's the secret?

Tiffany: It's a privilege to work at Blibli because our senior leadership is genuinely focused on and concerned about learning and development. As we grew larger as a publicly listed company, our CEO realised that we needed to invest in our talent. When we invest in our talent, we invest in our business because our people are our business. For my CEO and the senior leadership, helping and encouraging their team is also part of their KPI performance. Even our CEO is pushing for learning to be embedded first by the senior leadership. Then, I believe the culture can be built and also embedded in their team. Start with the senior managers first.

As we grew larger as a publicly listed company, our CEO realised that we needed to invest in our talent. When we invest in our talent, we invest in our business because our people are our business. For my CEO and the senior leadership, helping and encouraging their team is also part of their KPI performance.

We have an initiative that can be valuable for startups that want to start small: hold a town hall once a month. In Blibli, we have a specific town hall where only senior leadership can share about the business and the goals for the next three months. So every three months, the senior leadership has their own town hall for all employees called "Leadership Connect". They not only share about the business goals but also their struggles and action plan. Our team members can also learn about how the senior leadership manages these situations.

It's really important to build a culture of transparency from the senior leadership. The senior leadership takes a very big concern in Learning & Development because it's in their KPI at Blibli.

Kitty: That's real commitment when it's embedded into the KPIs and it sends such a powerful message right to the whole organisation. When you see leaders being vulnerable, sharing about their failures, what they learned, showing that they're transparently struggling with similar problems, that’s the power role modelling.

How cultivating a learning culture helps startup attract their talent and develop resilient, innovative teams

Tiffany: Learning is not just the senior leadership's responsibility; it's everyone's. Startups operate in dynamic and evolving environments and staying agile and adaptable is essential for survival and growth. A Learning & Development team or culture enables startups to acquire new knowledge and skills to keep up with technological advancements or market trends. It also fosters a culture of innovation and creativity within the organisation.

Learning is not just the senior leadership's responsibility; it's everyone's. Startups operate in dynamic and evolving environments and staying agile and adaptable is essential for survival and growth.

That was the biggest impact that I gained from these past few years working in startups, and it also developed my resilience and ability to adapt to unexpected challenges. As you know, in startups, we learn by doing. Whenever you have a big project, you have to make it happen first. We just dive into the project by doing it first and learning later.

Subconsciously, I believe our employees, as well as any employee working in a startup, realise  we must stay competitive by attracting and retaining talent. For example, I often have to work on  new projects  I have no prior experience with, unlike my friends at MNCs. It’s very interesting to work at Blibli in such an environment. It creates a brand positioning for the company to attract more talent and retain top talent through opportunities for personal and professional growth. I believe that's what the learning and development part is about.

I often have to work on  new projects  I have no prior experience with, unlike my friends at MNCs. It’s very interesting to work at Blibli in such an environment. It creates a brand positioning for the company to attract more talent and retain top talent through opportunities for personal and professional growth. I believe that's what the learning and development part is about.

Levelling up on marketing skills to deliver more effective employer branding

Kitty: I guess the employee experience speaks for itself and has a multiplier word of mouth. The easiest marketing technique there!

So what's ahead in the next half year for you? Looking forward?

Tiffany: Fortunately, I have the opportunity to learn and continue my Master's. Currently, I'm enrolled in the MA in Brand Communication & Culture program at Goldsmiths University of London for a year.

The decision to pursue my Master's degree came after I realised that I needed to learn more about branding and marketing since I lacked knowledge and experience in this field. Learning about marketing techniques will be a valuable asset for HR, as we can market our talents more effectively.

Learning about marketing techniques will be a valuable asset for HR, as we can market our talents more effectively.

Maybe after a year, I want to go back to Indonesia and continue building the HR, but with a focus on brands and communication. If I had the chance to work closely with PR, public relations, or marketing, it would be great because imagine if HR or employer branding had the same budget as the marketing team. I think we could go far!

Kitty: Employer branding is such an underrated but powerful investment because every employee, especially once you get to a certain headcount, is your own channel.

But people don't look at that. They want to rent channels from other people or they want to pay for media.

Tiffany: It may be a waste your money and your time if you're building a brand from scratch and pay influencers to market your product. However, if you ask your customers or employees if they plan to work at Blibli and the answer is no, then all that money goes to waste. So, HR can play a part in building a culture and branding from within the company.

Kitty: It's always really fun to hear what different HR functions are doing around Southeast Asia.

So you're going to London, did you say? So you'll be based in London? That will be fun. Have you been to London before?

Tiffany: I've been to London before, but only as a tourist. Relocating now is a bit daunting because I haven't been a student in a while. The last time I studied and opened a book was in 2015, which is almost eight years ago!

Despite this, I feel excited because I have the opportunity to learn and bring back knowledge to my current company. Interacting with other international students will allow me to share my experiences and find solutions to problems. Overall, I am excited about this opportunity.