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Eddy: Welcome everyone. Today we're going to talk about the Indonesian market, which many of you are interested in. This session will be different from our usual events. Instead of having one expert speak, we'll have a group discussion, which we call a content jam. We have three guests joining us:
- Andita: She's the VP of Marketing at Lemonilo, a health and wellness platform that sells healthy snacks and cooking ingredients. She has also worked for brands like Kraft, Abbott, SC Johnson, and L'Oreal.
- Dian: He's the Director of Growth and Regional VP of Online Marketing at Cove. Cove offers co-living spaces and flexible, short-term rentals in Southeast Asia.
- Fanbul: He's the CEO of Infipop, a media platform for younger audiences.
I'd like each of you to introduce yourself and share your favourite or most memorable marketing campaign. What's a campaign that you often think about?
Andita: Hello everyone. It's hard to choose my favourite campaign because big brands with high revenue usually have great campaigns. As a woman, I really like campaigns about equality. This is important to me because in Asia, women sometimes don't have equal opportunities at work or at home. Even though things are getting better, some issues still exist.
My favourite campaign is one I created myself when I was in charge of kecap manis, which is a sweet soy sauce. We made a campaign to encourage husbands to help their wives in the kitchen. I liked this campaign the most because it not only increased sales but also improved our brand's reputation and reached more customers.
I believe a good campaign isn't just about being creative. It's also about how well it can boost sales. That's what makes a campaign truly successful.
Dian: I really like emotional campaigns. I especially love campaigns that try to understand the audience's point of view.
Many big brands do big campaigns, but they often just talk about themselves. They say things like "Here I am, this is what I do, think of me this way." But what's really important is understanding the audience and how we can help them with their problems.
One campaign I really like is the Gojek campaign. It's very local and down-to-earth. It tries to understand the issues people in Indonesia face and how they creatively solve their problems. I like how Gojek tries to help with these issues. I wasn't part of this campaign, but I really admire it.
Fanbul: I agree with Kak Dita and Mas Dian about emotional campaigns and movements that we believe in as marketers. One of my favourite campaigns was for the 2017 Asian Games in Indonesia.
At that time, there was racial and religious tension in the country. We created a campaign that looked back at the 1962 Asian Games, which was led by our first president, Sukarno. We made a manifesto and a movement with only three months to prepare.
Surprisingly, we got more than 40,000 or 50,000 user-generated content pieces. This campaign changed the mood on social media. Before, people were arguing about politics, but now they focused on celebrating together as Indonesians. That's why it's one of the most memorable campaigns for me.
Have you encountered any unique challenges in Indonesia that have shaped your view of its market?
Eddy: I have a follow-up question related to what you just shared. We have four questions for our discussion today. Let's start with the first one: Have you faced any special challenges in Indonesia that changed how you see its market?
Fanbul: Indonesia is a big country with many different cultures and ways of thinking. This makes marketing challenging. For example, during the Asian Games, our first campaign didn't work well. We tried to use one message for all of Indonesia, but it failed.
We then realised we needed to focus on smaller areas. Places like Lampung, Makassar, Palembang, Bali, Jakarta, and Surabaya all think differently about why the Asian Games matter to them.
To fix this, we changed our approach. We hired local experts in each area who understood what people cared about. We even changed our writing to use local languages. This new method worked much better than our first try, which spent a lot of money but didn't connect with people.
Before, we just talked about how the athletes. But people didn't care because it didn't feel relevant to them. By changing to a local approach and including local issues, we made the campaign much more successful.
Eddy: I see. Do Andita and Dian have similar experiences? When you try to reach the whole Indonesian market, does one campaign work for everyone?
Dian: Yes, I've had similar experiences. In the past, we tried to create one big campaign with a single message for everyone. But we found out it only worked for some people, mainly those in big cities.
People in rural areas and smaller cities communicate differently. They use different media platforms and prefer different types of messages. They also speak different languages.
So, as Fanbul said, when we do a national campaign now, we need to be more specific about who we're trying to reach and where they are. This helps us create messages that work better for different groups of people across Indonesia.
Andita: I agree with what everyone has said. We need to remember that Indonesia is a very big country with almost 300 million people. As marketers, we can't target everyone. We need to be careful about choosing our target audience. We also need to think about which products fit best with our audience and what media works best to reach them.
It's also important to understand how customers make decisions to buy things. This can be challenging for marketers, especially when it comes to creating demand or making money.
I've worked in the consumer goods industry for a while, and I've noticed some things. When a product category is bigger, there's usually more competition. If a lot of people are already buying products in that category, we often see local brands that match what people in that area like.
For big brands like Lemonilo or those in the soy sauce market, it's important to stay relevant across different regions. Being relevant means communicating with people in a way that makes sense to them.
This goes back to knowing who our target audience is and what products they might like. We can't target everyone, so we need to focus on the people who are most likely to be interested in our brand.
Eddy: As you said, Indonesia is a huge market. Many international companies have tried to enter Indonesia but failed. For example, Uber tried to enter but lost to Gojek. Grab is still around, but it doesn't have a big share of the market compared to Gojek.
From a marketing point of view, why do you think Uber and Grab are having trouble getting more customers in Indonesia?
Dian: Let me try to answer that. There are two main issues in Indonesia. First, even though Indonesia is a big country, the average yearly income is low. This means many people use the internet, but they might not be the customers brands want because they can't afford to buy many products. So, it's challenging for foreign brands to find customers who can actually buy their products.
Second, in Indonesia, people often make quick, unplanned purchases. This is because there are many options available. For example, if you need a taxi to the airport tomorrow, you'd probably book it on the day, not in advance. This is different from more developed countries where people plan ahead.
Because of this, social media marketing and promotions work well in Indonesia. But this makes it hard for foreign brands because they have to sell at lower prices than they do in their home countries. They need to find a balance between getting new customers and making enough money to keep the business running.
Fanbul: I'd like to add something. Often, the problem is with how the product is set up. Companies try to use what works in the US, but it doesn't always fit in Indonesia. For example, Uber had a good product, but they only accepted credit cards at first. Most Indonesians don't use credit cards.
Good marketing can't fix a product that doesn't fit the local market. In Indonesia, many people buy things in small amounts, like single-use packets of shampoo. This is because many Indonesians don't have regular monthly incomes. They buy what they can afford when they have money.
Some companies have adapted well. For instance, Spotify offers daily subscriptions in Indonesia. It's like buying Spotify in small amounts, just like those shampoo packets. This has helped Spotify grow in Indonesia.
The main point is that when global brands come to Indonesia, they need to change their products to fit how Indonesians live and shop. Indonesian customers often have different habits and reasons for buying things compared to other countries.
Andita: I agree with what Dian and Fanbul said. To succeed in countries like those in ASEAN or India, we need to understand the local context. We can't just use strategies that work in other countries when we come to Indonesia. Even Singapore and Indonesia can be different. Indonesia, Malaysia, and India might be more similar.
I think what Dian and Fanbul said makes sense. Whether you're a local or global company, you need to understand what consumers want. You need to fit in with the local market.
About Gojek and Grab, I think both are strong in Indonesia. But Gojek might understand the local context better because they're Indonesian. They do a lot of market research, so they can adapt easily. Grab is winning in some areas.
As a brand, you need to know which areas connect with you best and bring in more money. It's okay if you don't win nationally. You can succeed in one or two regions, and that can be enough for your revenue. It's part of a marketer's job to choose which regions are most important for your business.
What are the bigger challenges a marketer would face when designing a national campaign?
Eddy: We've talked about how different regions in Indonesia can be. Now, let's move on to our next question. It's related to what we've been discussing. What are the biggest problems marketers face when creating a campaign for the whole country?
Dian: Indonesia is very diverse, and each region has its own culture. This makes it challenging to create content and communication that works for everyone. We need to think about how to reach people in different areas effectively. For example, in big cities, online media works well. But in smaller cities, offline media like newspapers and radio are still important.
Different places also have different preferences for content and culture. Some areas, like Aceh, West Sumatra, and West Java, tend to be more conservative than big cities like Surabaya, Jakarta, or Yogyakarta. This means we need to adjust how we communicate to avoid offending people in different areas. At the same time, we want to keep our message consistent across the country.
We need to adjust how we communicate to avoid upsetting people in different areas. At the same time, we want to keep our message the same across the country. This is one of the main challenges we face.
Eddy: I see. Andita, can you tell us more about this? You mentioned that Indonesia has different religions and races, which probably means different languages too. Does this affect how you plan a national campaign?
Andita: Indonesia is different from India. In India, you need many translations for a national launch. You can also launch by region there. But in Indonesia, we mainly use one language - Bahasa Indonesia - across the country. We don't need different languages, but we can use different influencers for different regions if we want to reach specific areas.
The biggest challenge for marketers is usually the budget. We need to know how much money we have for a national campaign. Not every brand has a lot of money to spend. This is a common problem for marketers.
We often want to do big things with a small budget. We want our campaigns to go viral, but we have limited resources. So, we need to find a balance between what we want to achieve and what we can afford.
Fanbul: I'd like to add something about Ismaya, which is very popular in Jakarta. When we tried to launch outside of Jakarta, we faced a problem. People in places like Makassar and Manado don't know much about Ismaya. They might only know about big events like Jakarta Warehouse Project or Djakarta Fest.
So, we can't just open an "Ismaya Lounge" in Makassar because no one would care. The challenge is how to make our national campaign work for local areas. I agree with Andita that we need to use different influencers and media for different places.
This means we have to be careful about how we spend our budget. It's really important to decide what to focus on and what to leave out.
How does regional diversity impact media consumption habits and marketing preferences?
Eddy: I have a question for you, Dian. What happens when a more expensive brand wants to sell in Indonesia? How do you plan and run campaigns to make sure you're reaching the right people?
Dian: This creates a challenge for brands, including Cove. Our company offers premium co-living spaces. That's quite expensive. We're probably only targeting about 10-20% of the population, which is a small group.
To reach our target audience, we work with influencers who focus on luxury goods. When we create campaigns, we try to establish Cove as a premium brand. This way, when people interact with us, they already know we're offering high-end services.
We use a lot of online marketing because it allows us to target specific groups of people. Traditional advertising methods like TV, radio, or newspapers are too broad for our needs. We invest heavily in online media and use data to improve our targeting.
We often see comments on our social media posts saying things like, "Oh, $300 or $500? I could buy a house with that money!" But these people aren't our target customers, so it's okay. Our actual target audience will still engage with us and use our services.
Luxury brands have their own appeal and benefits. People with money often want these brands for what they represent. The marketing helps, but the product positioning and the brand itself play a big role in attracting customers.
The best media to use depends on your target market. In big cities, video platforms like YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram work well because they let you tell stories. But in smaller cities and rural areas, text-based media is more popular.
In these areas, people use social media differently. They mostly use Facebook, especially Facebook groups. They share information through chats and WhatsApp groups. WhatsApp chain messages are common too.
So, the media you choose really depends on where your audience is and how they use technology. It's important to understand these differences when planning your marketing.
Andita: It really depends on your product and how much competition you have. TV is still the top choice for reaching people, especially if you sell things in regular stores or markets. But digital and social media are becoming more popular in Indonesia, particularly TikTok.
Your choice of media depends on your budget and what you're selling. If you don't have much money, don't use TV. But if you have a big budget, TV can help make people aware of your product.
Right now, I think social media and digital marketing are really taking off. TikTok has grown a lot in the last few years.
Fanbul: Let me share some research I've done recently. infipop is now one of the biggest digital media platforms for Gen Z. We need to understand how to reach this group.
Gen Z is interesting because they're both individualistic and community-oriented. They want to feel authentic, but they also like doing things together. That's why many young Indonesians, whether they're influencers or entrepreneurs, start movements that create communities.
TikTok is a good example of this. It helps build communities by making content creation easier and letting anyone become influential. But we shouldn't forget about offline communities too. They're still important for connecting with Gen Z.
Can you share one successful and learning campaign you've observed in the market?
Eddy: For our final topic today, I'd like each of you to share an example of a marketing campaign you've seen in Indonesia. It can be one that worked well or one that didn't do so great. Tell us why you think it succeeded or why it didn't meet expectations. The campaign doesn't have to be one you worked on - it can be from any company.
Andita: Let me share two types of marketing campaigns - one that didn't work as well as expected and one that was successful. First, the less successful one. I've experienced this a few times in my career. It's when we choose a brand ambassador.
For consumer goods, we do research to pick the right person. On paper, they seem perfect for the brand. But when we launched the campaign, it didn't work as well as we hoped.
I think using brand ambassadors is becoming outdated. It started with companies like Unilever and their Lux brand, but things are different now. Today, it's more about the brand's own story, not having someone represent your brand.
For example, Kylie Cosmetics. They're struggling to grow because the brand is too closely tied to Kylie Jenner. On the other hand, brands like Rare Beauty by Selena Gomez and Fenty by Rihanna are growing fast. Even though celebrities own these brands, they don't have the same personality as the owner. So, while you can still use brand ambassadors, you need to be very careful when choosing one.
Now, for a successful campaign, I really like the "Real Beauty" campaign by Dove. The idea behind it is still relevant today. They just need to update it for current social issues. The campaign has evolved from focusing on skin whitening to encouraging people to accept themselves, especially when they're worried about their looks or weight.
As a marketer, if you can create a campaign idea that stays relevant and adapts to social changes, you're doing a great job.
Dian: I'll talk about the Gojek “Pasti Ada” challenge campaign I mentioned earlier. It was very successful.
The campaign helped people understand what Gojek can do and showed how close they are to everyday Indonesians. They had a big budget, which was important. But their content was also very local and showed they understood Indonesia well.
This made the campaign go viral. It was successful because it was local, insightful, and funny all at once. But remember, it wouldn't have worked without a big budget.
Now, about campaigns that didn't work so well. I've noticed a trend of brands using Korean celebrities, especially K-pop groups, as ambassadors. It started with Shopee using Blackpink to attract female customers. This worked really well at first.
But then other brands started doing the same thing. Tokopedia used BTS, and others followed. When everyone does this, it loses its impact. People stop paying attention. I think this trend isn't working anymore because brands are just trying to copy each other's success.
They're only reaching a small group of K-pop fans, which isn't relevant for most users of their services. These companies are spending a lot of money on these campaigns but probably aren't getting much back in sales.
Fanbul: I want to talk about two types of marketing campaigns that didn't work well, based on my experience and my friends'. First, there's a common approach in Indonesia where companies try to create hype with a gimmick. They reveal the real product after a few weeks. This method has become predictable and often fails because people forget about it quickly due to information overload.
Second, I made a mistake in my own campaign recently. I was excited about a new product launch and spent too much on creating content - like photoshoots and visual identity. But I forgot to budget for promoting this content to reach people. I learned that marketing is like fuel and an engine. The content is the fuel, but you also need a good engine (promotion) to make it work.
For a successful campaign, I like what Paragon did. They launched a men's personal care product called Kahf in 2021, which is now a top brand. Their approach was to create a movement before starting the marketing campaign.
Another example is Wardah. They tapped into being the largest Muslim country in the world and created a movement around Muslim identity. They did good community mapping. For instance, they have an annual conference where people from all communities in Indonesia gather. It's successful because it starts with a movement.
I learned an important lesson about marketing campaigns. I thought that if we made really good content, people would naturally share it and it would go viral. But that's not always true.
Here's what I did wrong: I spent most of our budget on creating content, and only a little on promoting it. What I should have done was the opposite - spend less on content creation and more on promoting it.
I now understand that marketing is like a car. The content is the fuel, but you also need a good engine to make the car move. In marketing, promotion is the engine. Even if you have great content, without proper promotion, no one will see what you've created.
How do brands avoid price wars in Indonesia?
Eddy: That's right, it's all about balance. We have a question from Nia in the chat. Nia asks: How do brands avoid price wars in Indonesia? And how do they stand out without just competing on price? Let's address these two parts.
Andita: Price wars are mostly an issue for everyday consumer goods. To stand out, you need a clear brand message. For example, with Lemonilo Noodles, we focus on being healthy.
Our price is much higher than other brands like Indomie. As marketers, we want a strong brand identity. For Lemonilo, it's all about health. Our job is to show people why our products are healthy. That's how we're different from others.
It's harder to stand out with basic products like rice or sugar. But for things like skincare, you can be more unique. Take Warda, for example. They compete with brands like Unilever's Pond's. There's some price competition, but they also try to make their brand different.
Eddy: Andita, Dean, and Fanbul, thank you for joining us. I hope everyone enjoyed the session.
